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Falcon/ECCM Imbalance

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Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.22 11:34:00 - [1] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 22/03/2008 11:35:50 Solution: Introduce scripts for ECCM modules. 1. Protection by range jamming 2. Protection by cycle time reduction A T2 ECCM with option 1 loaded should cut enemy ECM ships ECM range into half approximately. A T2 ECCM with option 2 loaded should cut ECM jam cycles affecting you into half. With no script loaded it should do 1/4 of each effect. Why so powerful counter? Because ECM is powerful by its own. Add to that that mid slots are extremely valuable ECCM should be a very powerful protective tool and not a bad joke as it is today. This will force falcon pilots to make choices at wich range they wanna risk jamming at. Closer range theyll jam many ships even with ECCM protection on them but they risk dying or they can go at 150km but one ECCM will render all their ECM useless. Why not force falcon pilots into decision making. my 2 cents -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.22 12:15:00 - [2] Originally by: Yosarian Manth Originally by: ImmortalKalo Edited by: ImmortalKalo on 22/03/2008 11:12:56 Fact is in a battle ship with 2 eccm mods on (79.1 sensor strength total), I am still jammed more than 50% of the time by a single falcon Really? 79.1 sensor strength vs. 14.6 jam strength is 50% jam chance? Does a falcon have 1 mid slot or whats your problem? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.22 13:05:00 - [3] Originally by: Dianeces We already have this. It's called Sensor Damps. You may have heard of them. No we dont you noob. 1 unbonused damp is not going cut the locking range of a falcon down to half. Im talking about just cutting the ECM range. You try so hard to flame me that youre grasping for straws and you fail miserably because you have no point what so ever. And back you go into your cave. Originally by: Dianeces Only if I get a module that doubles the cycle time for neuts. Neuts only go up to 40km or so. The whole point with the ECM range jamming is to bring the jammer closer so you might have a chance to shoot him when you get a chance to lock. Right now falcons are sitting at 150km range and are untouchable. Are you just playing dumb or did you really get dropped in your early infant days? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.22 14:46:00 - [4] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 22/03/2008 14:46:00 But all those counters involve a good gang. I mean there are mobules there to use so why shouldnt they get boosted so its remotely possible to defend yourself when alone against a falcon + friends? Any change that promotes more towards solo and less towards blobing is good in my book. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.22 15:09:00 - [5] Originally by: Relyen Originally by: ZeitGeits Edited by: ZeitGeits on 22/03/2008 14:44:18 With a sensor strength of 79.1 you'll get jammed 17.951% of the time by a max skilled (Recon Ships V, Signal Dispersion V) Falcon pilot using the right racial jammer (best named or T2, best named or T2 SDAs in the lows) on you. 33.508% chance to jam with 2 racial jammers, 45.781% jam chance with 3 racial jammers. A typical Falcon fitting will have a MWD II, SB II and 5 jammers on board, 2 of those jammers of the same race. Optimal range of the jammers with Long Range Jamming IV and two particle dispersion projectors is 239 km (?). This isn't entirely true, it's not how chance based stuff works. Having 3 racial jammers won't give the falcon a 45.781% chance to jam. It is still at 17.951% chance, but 3 chances to do it. But each chance is still only a 17.951% chance. No he is correct. The chance to jam a ship when youre in a falcon increases with the amount of ECM modules youre activating on the target. Yes each jammer module has the same chance but if you use more then one then your chances increase of jamming your target. Its actually your statement that is wrong. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.22 15:14:00 - [6] Originally by: ZeitGeits I don't think that the usual gangs I fly in could be called blobbing and I don't think anybody realistically expects to keep his ship or pod when faced with 5 reasonably well skilled pilots in T2 ships regardless if they have a falcon with them or not. On the other hand I'm aware of the frustration ECM causes because most of the time you can't fight back and neither FOF missiles nor auto aggroing drones are enough to drive a tackler away. The effect of ECM on battles is balanced, the effect on the player behind the keyboard might not be. I dont agree. If I take out my battleship up against a gang camping. They might have a mix of cruisers and frigs. I got a bigger ship but they got more numbers. The problem is if they have a falcon it totally tilts the balance towards the camping side. A fair fight turns into a boring gank where the outnumbered side cant defend itself. You cannot see the falcon and you cannot kill the falcon because he has several bookmarks around the gate. Its extremely boring that you can camp a gate and be invincible. All you need is a falcon, a rapier, some stealth bombers and an inty. There is no way in hell youre gonna bust any of them how hard you even try. Either they win or they run or cloak. This is why its so important that ECCM actually works. You cant see a falcon coming and they tilt a fair fight by far too much. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.22 17:13:00 - [7] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 22/03/2008 17:14:14 The core problem is still that: -ECM is a problem if you are on the outnumbered side. -ECM has alot of counters as long as youre not outnumbered. I also have no problem with rook being this effective though. The main problem is the falcon. It has basically no drawbacks compared to a rook. It just appears in middle of fights and totally turns the tide of battle. If powerful EW like this is allowed to exist at 150km range then atleast limit it to the non cloaking combat recon and not the damn cloaking one. ECM is the ONLY ew that protects tacklers. If enemy ship cant lock you can tackle it with everything from webs to scramblers. Thats just imbalanced combined with cloaks. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.22 19:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Zarin So one volley the falcon on the 50% of the time you're not jammed ? It's really not that hard. He only has to miss one cycle and he's dead. Oh ok, because the average ship or gang has a ship that can volley falcons at 150km distance? I think not. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.22 19:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Waxau Many 0.0 fleets are fitted for snipe (bar from roaming gangs) and your average roaming gang nowdays has plenty of nanos. Getting a point on a falcon really isnt that hard. Oh, so I have to nano all my ships and also bring alot of friends to deal with ecm? Yeah I like where this is going. Its exactly where eve shouldnt be going...into lame-land. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.22 21:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Mahn AlNouhm A couple volleys and falcon = dead. ECCM makes them useless. Nano will keel them. This is exactly one of the problems. Falcons can operate from 100-150km range. This means its long enough range to warp between bookmarks and yes trust me good falcon pilots have bookmarks all over the place on various gates. He will just warp between bookmarks around the gate as soon as you lock him. It doesnt work. So please lets stick to stuff that actually works and not theory-craft too much. ECM and ECCM needs a looksie. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare

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